Previously, the choice was simpler: wood or brick. And the developer was not particularly clever: in the forest region they built from wood, and in the steppes from stone. Now completely new materials have been added, easily available in any region. The production of cellular concrete blocks can be deployed anywhere. This is beneficial not only to the manufacturer; future home owners are also happy to save on wall materials, foundations and insulation.
Is the new one so good? construction material? Let's do comparative analysis time-tested brick and a contender for the place of leader - aerated concrete.
It should be noted right away that there is no just brick: there is silicate and ceramic, obtained by pressing and firing, ordinary and facing, clinker and fireclay, solid and slotted (hollowness up to 45%). You don’t need to mention the size and color; they do not change the properties of the brick.
In civil engineering, several types of bricks are most often found. Each of them has different properties and is designed for specific jobs.
Sand-lime (white) brick is made by pressing a mixture of lime and sand, then it is processed in an autoclave. By adding dyes, you get a brick of all the colors of the rainbow. Sand-lime brick absorbs moisture well and is not frost-resistant. Despite the fact that it is stronger than ceramic, it cannot be used in foundations and for laying out basement walls. It is also unsuitable for chimneys - it is destroyed by exposure to high temperatures.
Its specific density is higher, it is heavier and “colder” than ceramics. For walls made of sand-lime brick A strong foundation and additional insulation are required. It seemed that all the negative properties were present. But sand-lime brick was widely used in the construction of private houses and multi-storey buildings. Nowadays it is being replaced by ceramic everywhere.
Ceramic bricks are produced from clay by semi-dry pressing with or without subsequent firing. Using different types of clay and varying the composition of additives, you can change the properties and characteristics of ceramic bricks, obtaining fire-resistant, acid-resistant and clinker bricks. 
Ceramic brick that has not undergone firing is not very different in properties from silicate brick. The strength is less and the moisture resistance is lower than that of the fired one.
By appearance Ceramic bricks are divided into ordinary, facing and special.
As a rule, when building brick walls, several types are used, depending on the purpose. The foundations and plinths are laid out of fired red ceramic brick: it is more resistant to moisture. The walls are erected from silicate (as cheaper) and lined with cladding. Warmer walls are made entirely of ceramic bricks, especially hollow ones.
Everyone has heard the words aerated concrete, foam block, cinder block, cellular concrete, polystyrene concrete... And many believe that we're talking about about the same thing: about some kind of light “block” from which it has become fashionable to build houses. But what really?
To produce foam concrete, cement, sand, water are mixed and ready-made technical foam is added. The mixture saturated with air bubbles is poured into molds and the foam block is ready.
What can you say about the properties?
Another name is gas silicate. The production technology is more complex: the same cement, sand and water as in foam concrete, but aluminum powder is used as a foaming agent. As a result chemical reaction Hydrogen bubbles form, the mixture increases in volume and fills the mold. After setting, it is cut into smaller blocks and sent to an autoclave for steam treatment at high pressure ( autoclaved concrete). Using another method (non-autoclaved concrete), it is brought to condition in drying chambers.
The properties of aerated concrete are in many ways similar to those of foam concrete. Low thermal conductivity, high fire resistance. Light walls do not require a massive foundation. At the same time, aerated concrete blocks have a higher rate of moisture absorption. Saturated with water, they lose their heat-protective qualities and frost resistance.
Gas silicate blocks are distinguished by their strict geometry, which cannot be said about foam blocks. Laying aerated concrete blocks can be done using glue with a seam thickness of 2-3 mm, foam blocks only on cement mortar, allowing you to level out the difference in size.
The technology for manufacturing aerated concrete cannot be repeated in artisanal conditions, therefore the quality of blocks made from it is, by definition, better.
Its basis is the same: cement-sand mortar. Polystyrene in granules is used as a filler; it is simply mixed with the solution like crushed stone. The resulting mixture is poured into molds or poured into formwork at the construction site.
The material combines many positive properties cellular concrete. Lightweight and durable, does not burn and does not absorb water. Easy to process.
How to compare brick and aerated concrete when there are varieties and when several types are used simultaneously in construction?
For comparison, we will take the average figures of the most important indicators.
Before starting construction, one of the main issues is choosing a durable, reliable and inexpensive building material, so you need to figure out what is better to choose - brick or aerated concrete. Before making a choice, you need to decide on the parameters of the future building, its size and operating conditions, only after that you can choose a building material that will meet all the requirements and decide what to choose - aerated concrete or brick.
The modern construction market is presented big amount There are a variety of materials that are used to construct various buildings, but you shouldn’t always believe the advertising - it’s better to understand their properties and only then make a choice. Most often, brick or cellular concrete is used for construction; aerated concrete is one of the best. Often the owner of a site is faced with the question of what is better - brick or aerated concrete - and which material to give preference to.
To do right choice, you need to familiarize yourself with the characteristics and features of brick and aerated concrete, only then can you choose the material that will optimally meet your requirements.
This material has been used for construction for a very long time, and over time its characteristics have improved significantly.
This building material is highly durable and has a long service life. If we talk about price, then for the same volume, aerated concrete is cheaper, brick is more expensive. To make it, ordinary clay is used, which is fired. For different types bricks are used different compositions, they have different dispersion, the strength and price of the brick will largely depend on this.
After the clay is mixed with water and dried in special forms, it already holds its shape quite well. Then it is fired, during which the brick acquires the necessary mechanical characteristics. Firing is a rather complex and lengthy process, during which the temperature changes dynamically, and drying chamber A strictly specified temperature must be maintained.
For each clay composition, they develop their own firing technology; the strength and frost resistance of the brick will depend on the quality of this technological operation.
Depending on the composition of the mixture that was used for its production, the brick can be silicate or ceramic.
The advantages of sand-lime brick are its high frost resistance and strength, but it has high thermal conductivity and absorbs moisture well, which is why ceramic brick is more common.
This type of building material is less easily washed out by precipitation, it has lower thermal conductivity and higher sound insulation properties. A house made of brick will be stronger, but it will take longer to build, since when comparing the sizes of brick and aerated concrete, the latter wins.
It should be noted that brick has higher strength, which is why it is used in construction multi-storey buildings, while aerated concrete is usually used for the construction of private houses and cottages, this must be taken into account when comparing brick and aerated concrete.
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A special feature of such a material as aerated concrete is its cellular structure, due to which it has excellent thermal conductivity and sound insulation characteristics, and is quite light in weight. Despite its cellular structure, aerated concrete has sufficient strength; it can be used in the construction of buildings up to 3 floors high. If we talk about which material to give preference to when building a multi-story building - aerated concrete or brick, then you need to choose brick.
In order to build a house from aerated concrete, foam blocks from the specified material are used. For the production of aerated concrete the following are used:
If foam blocks are made with the addition of production waste, this reduces the cost of aerated concrete, but it turns out to be less durable.
Foam blocks from aerated concrete are made in an autoclave, their maximum characteristics are obtained. Increased pressure and temperature are created in the autoclave, so the foam blocks acquire a homogeneous macrostructure.
When comparing aerated concrete and brick, it is impossible to give a clear answer about which option will be better. It all depends on what qualities the future building should have.
Both materials have their own disadvantages and advantages, so only you can make a choice between aerated concrete or brick.
If you are building a low-rise house, then it is worth considering the fact that one foam block of aerated concrete will correspond to 7-8 bricks, so the work is carried out much faster, it is required less solution for masonry.
If we compare aerated concrete and brick, then foam blocks can be used both for structural purposes and for thermal insulation of a house, while a building that is made of brick, so that it is comfortable in winter time, it is necessary to do additional thermal insulation.
In order to save money on masonry, you should give preference to aerated concrete.
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One of the main characteristics that must be taken into account when building a house is its weight. For brick house a more massive and, accordingly, more expensive foundation is needed than for the construction of a building if foam blocks are used.
The thermal insulation properties of the house have great importance both in winter and in summer time. To make the house comfortable, the thickness brick wall should be at least 50 cm, while the thickness of a wall made of foam blocks will be only 30-40 cm.
An important indicator of any building material is its frost resistance. It characterizes how well it will retain its properties when high humidity, as well as during repeated freezing and thawing. If for aerated concrete blocks the number of cycles is about 25-35, then for brick it is 2 times more, therefore brick building has a longer service life.
The main disadvantage of aerated concrete blocks is that they have little strength, therefore they are intended for the construction of buildings no more than 3 floors high, but for the construction of a private house or cottage it is an almost ideal material.
As the water absorption of the material increases, its service life will decrease. If for aerated concrete this figure is 10%, then for brick it is from 6 to 16%.
If we talk about indicators such as environmental friendliness and fire safety, both materials will have high values.
Brickwork has an advantage in terms of shrinkage. Over time, the gas silicate sides shrink, as a result of which cracks may appear on the walls. Near dry heat, shrinkage will occur more intensely, whereas this does not happen with brick walls.
The advantage of gas silicate blocks is their simpler mechanical restoration, therefore it is easier to install doors, windows, and Finishing work. However, this must be done carefully, as they are less durable. Brick walls have higher strength, they also have more options for finishing work.
Both materials under consideration belong to the first class of fire resistance; they can withstand high temperatures for a long time and do not emit harmful substances. The fire resistance limit of these materials is not less than 2.5 hours, whereas, for example, for wooden house this figure is only 30 minutes.
It is impossible to compare the cost of these materials exactly, since even within the same city it may differ. It is also necessary to take into account the distance to which delivery is required. Generally speaking, the cost of the same volume of these materials for aerated concrete will be approximately 30% less.
Since the volume of blocks is much larger, construction work will be carried out faster. If it takes from 3 to 6 months to build an average-sized brick house, then using foam blocks it will take only 1 to 3 months, that is, the work will be completed 3 times faster.
Before starting to build a house, everyone asks the question: what material should they choose? Each building material has its advantages and some disadvantages. Let's try to determine which is better: brick or aerated concrete? Durable, reliable and fire-resistant authority construction market or its younger, but very promising counterpart?
Rapid development construction technologies has one main goal - reducing the construction time of buildings without losing quality indicators. Today, future homeowners have at their disposal a variety of interesting building materials, among which the most optimal ratio physical, technical and consumer characteristics brick and aerated concrete have.
- ageless building material. For many centuries in a row, truly strong, reliable, time-tested buildings have been erected from it. And even against the backdrop of the existence of many other materials and the tireless emergence of new alternatives, brick reserves the right to be called the most popular assistant to builders.
It is not for nothing that brick houses are considered the most common, because at least one “instance” of this material can be found in every city in the world. The secret to the popularity of brickwork is simple:
This seemingly ideal building material also has its drawbacks. High thermal conductivity, the need to build a powerful foundation due to the large weight of the brickwork, long construction times and high cost compared to wood, gas and foam concrete.
Video: Brick house - owner reviews
The last decade was marked by the appearance of porous bricks, which made it possible to improve the thermal insulation qualities of walls. Possessing all the advantages of traditional ceramic materials, it reduces masonry time, mortar consumption, mortar joints and the number of cold bridges, makes walls warmer, and houses cheaper to operate.
Aerated concrete, which is rapidly gaining popularity, is unique material who managed to unite best qualities wood and stone. Stepping on the heels of the brick, it already confidently holds the status of “sales leader” and is in simply enormous demand! What is his secret? There are plenty of pleasant and useful benefits, including:
The main disadvantage of aerated concrete is its low strength index, which limits its use in multi-story construction. Fortunately, this problem only affected those products that have a low compressive strength coefficient.
Video: House made of aerated concrete - owner reviews
So, aerated concrete is superior in many of its characteristics classic types wall building materials. Having technical characteristics and response to influence similar to wood environment, this product surpasses it in many respects, as it shows complete indifference to mold, combustion and rotting.
Let us be impartial by comparing these materials in several respects.
1. About the harm excess weight . Aerated concrete minimally loads the foundation, having average density only 500 kg/m3. When choosing this product, you can limit yourself to an inexpensive columnar or lightweight strip foundation.
The brick, in turn, weighs four times more than its opponent and needs capital support - a strip foundation or a monolithic slab.
2. About cool summer and warm winter . The lower the thermal conductivity of the material, the less money you will need to spend on insulating your home. The thermal conductivity of brick is much higher than the thermal conductivity of aerated concrete, which means that the brickwork must be thicker. Building walls more than two meters wide is expensive, time-consuming and tedious, so you’ll have to get a good thermal insulation material or bet on aerated concrete.
3. About the fear of fire. Regarding the ability to resist high temperatures in case of fire, aerated concrete and brick are almost equal, which allowed experts to classify them as the first class of fire resistance.
4. About speed qualities. Everyone knows that working with brick is difficult and time consuming, but working with aerated concrete is “quick and fun”, because we have already mentioned the ideal geometry and lightness of aerated concrete blocks.
5. About the cost. Aerated concrete is cheaper than brick. In addition, it does not need to be insulated, plastered or puttyed.
6. They meet you by their clothes. It would seem, what difference does it make exactly how this or that building material is packaged? Still, it’s nice that manufacturers place several aerated concrete blocks on a pallet, cover them from moisture with a proprietary “cap” and tie them together with polyethylene tapes. And we are already accustomed to buying bricks without packaging at all, which often ends in damage and financial losses.
In the end, we note that the sensitivity of aerated concrete requires a special approach to the installation of windows and doors, but drilling and sawing it, of course, is easier than brick. At the same time, only brick walls can boast a huge number of finishing options, so there is no clear answer to the question of which of these materials is best to use in your construction without your participation!
What is better to choose for building a house: timber or logs?
What better brick or aerated concrete? This is one of the most frequently asked questions questions that future developers ask themselves country houses when choosing wall material. Currently, countryside is the most popular house made of brick or aerated concrete: 1) aerated block - in a different way (the same thing) - aerated concrete, aerated concrete block, is produced using an industrial autoclave method (not to be confused with foam blocks, which are most often made in an artisanal way to create a competitive, attractive price, but with lower technical characteristics); 2) ceramic block - in a different way (the same thing) - brick, ceramics, ceramic blocks, ceramic stone, warm ceramics, large-format brick, porous brick, porous stone, porous block.
Brick or gas block- 2 of the most popular materials fighting for leadership in the market of modern building materials. Being different materials in their composition and properties (gas block - sand, cement and lime; brick - clay), they have some similar qualities:
Aerated concrete or ceramics- What then is the difference between them? To answer this question, let's look at the following table:
| Material properties | Build a house from aerated concrete D400 375x625x250mm |
Build a brick house format 14.3NF 510x250x219mm |
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Comparative estimates for the construction of a 2-story cottage with total area 165.8m2 |
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| Exterior view of the cottage taken for comparison and its layout (visualizations belong to the Alfaplan architectural studio) |
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| Total cost of building a “box” house | RUB 3,729,168 | RUR 4,201,422 |
| Difference in construction costs | RUB 472,254 That. building a house from aerated concrete cheaper than home from large-format bricks by an average of 10-15% |
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| Sufficient thickness of the “warm” wall(R norm =3.08(m2*C)/W - heat transfer resistance coefficient) | 375mm R=3.36 (dry) - the wall is warm and does not require additional insulation (according to the manufacturer) |
630mm R=3.34 (including facing brick finishing 120*250*65) - the wall is warm and does not require additional insulation (according to the manufacturer) |
| Material weight | 400kg/m 3 | 800kg/m 3 |
| Block geometry | The error in the geometry of aerated concrete blocks is +/- 1 mm (the best geometry). The laying is carried out using thin-seam glue. Seam 2-3mm. The minimum shrinkage along the masonry seam is 0.3 mm/m and the absence of “cold bridges”. | The geometry error of large-format porous blocks is +/-2-3mm. The masonry is carried out on a warm (perlite) masonry mortar (the joint is 4 times warmer than a cement-sand mortar) using a fiberglass mesh (prevents the mortar from falling into the crack). Seam 8-10mm. The minimum shrinkage along a masonry seam is 2-3mm/m. |
| Cutting and gating of blocks | Cutting with a hacksaw on aerated concrete, gating with a manual wall chaser | Diamond blades |
| Longitudinal reinforcement of walls (reduces the risk of formation of temperature-shrinkage cracks under tensile loads) |
It is performed with AIII 8mm rod reinforcement on the 1st row, then on every 4th row, in the window sill rows. | It is recommended to use AIII reinforcement bars with a diameter of 6-8 mm. We do not recommend using reinforcing mesh - because... it becomes an ideal bridge of cold along the entire perimeter of the walls, and the use of warm masonry mortar becomes meaningless. It is recommended to use composite mesh as an alternative material. |
| Features of the material | The high vapor permeability of the walls creates a comfortable microclimate in the house due to the best steam and air exchange. High capillary water saturation. Finishing is carried out only with vapor-permeable materials and mineral insulation. Optimal view Exterior finishing for a house made of aerated concrete is a ventilated facade using facing bricks or decorative panels. | Low capillary water saturation. As a rule, the exterior decoration of a house is done with facing bricks. |
| Composition of blocks and health safety | Does not contain harmful, toxic compounds. Composition: sand, cement, lime, water. When pores form, aluminum powder turns into aluminum oxide, a bound and stable chemical compound. | Does not contain harmful, toxic compounds. Composition: clay. Sawdust added to the raw material burns out during the firing process, forming micropores. |
| Radiation background ( permissible norm radiation 25-30 µR/h) | Does not increase background radiation in the house. | May increase background radiation in the home. You need to purchase bricks only for industrial production, where products undergo radiation control and have appropriate certificates. |
| For that category of customers who are concerned about the background radiation in the house, we recommend purchasing a household dosimeter (radiometer) - the cost on the Internet starts from 3,000 rubles and measure the value of the purchased batch of bricks. | ||
| Wall nailability | Requires special fasteners. This material property does not currently have practical significance, because Using modern fasteners, you can install and fasten structures and equipment to any walls. | |
This is important to know!
The differences are the most important for the consumer (aerated concretevs . brick)
When during a conversation they ask the question: “What is your house built from?”, then in response we hear: “from brick”, “from aerated concrete”, “from timber”, “from expanded clay concrete”, etc. No one will ask at the beginning about the type of foundation or type roofing. Those. For all consumers, the material of the walls of a country house is of predominant importance, because It is the walls that protect and create a private space for all family members, protect us from the aggressive influence of the environment (wind, precipitation, cold, heat, etc.) and retain heat.
This psychological moment often determines our choice of material for walls between aerated concrete and brick. In our minds, brick is primarily associated with reliability, durability and respectability, as the main building material for castles, fortresses, palaces and mansions since ancient times. This rule clearly demonstrates consumer demand for ready-made country houses. In the countryside real estate market, houses built of brick have higher liquidity than houses made of aerated concrete. Those. a house made of brick will be bought more willingly, faster and more expensive than the same house made of aerated concrete.
At identical values on thermal protection of walls for individual residential buildings for permanent residence(when walls made of both materials are equally warm):
With the same thickness = the walls of a house made of aerated concrete are warmer than brick ones.
That. If you compare 2 houses - made of brick and gas block with the same layout and area of the rooms, then to build a brick house you will need a foundation with larger area than for a similar house made of aerated concrete. In addition, for a brick house all other construction volumes increase - the areas and volumes of all walls, ceilings, rafter system, roofing covering. In general, building a brick house more expensive than a house from aerated concrete by an average of 10-15%.
As a rule, the main complaints of residents during the operation of houses are related to the fact that inner surface aerated concrete walls damp not only in wet areas (bathrooms, toilets), but also in residential areas. Damp walls retain heat less well, and in addition, they contribute to the formation of mold and fungi. Is there an explanation for these negative reviews? Of course, there is and this is due to the fact that the construction of the walls was carried out in violation of technology due to the lack of necessary knowledge during unauthorized construction or a negligent attitude towards production installation work hired teams.
Any material, both brick and aerated concrete, has its own area of application and features that are regulated constructive solutions and requirements. If we know and comply with these requirements, then we get the desired result, but if we violate the technology or expect something unusual from the material, then we are deceived in our expectations and begin to talk about its “shortcomings”, as in the cases of negative reviews on the Internet . For high-quality construction of aerated concrete walls, it is necessary to take into account many nuances, the knowledge of which only experienced and professional builders have.
Some developers, when considering ceramic block as a wall material, are afraid that “later” they won’t be able to hang anything on the walls, because A hammer drill and ordinary fasteners are not enough. This is true - for hanging heavy objects and structures (ladders, shelves, wall cabinets, wall bars, horizontal bar, etc.) on the walls, after their construction is completed, special fasteners will be required. But currently this property is not big drawback, because Almost any hardware store or construction hypermarket offers special anchors (plastic, chemical) for walls made of ceramic blocks. In addition, during new construction, even at the design stage, concrete or metal embedded elements are provided for future suspended structures. Professional builders everyone knows this and will take it into account when building walls.
Over 11 years of work, the Full House company has built more than 80 houses made of large-format bricks and more than 130 houses made of aerated concrete. Ceramic block or aerated concrete? Both materials have proven themselves to be reliable in practice. wall materials. Ceramic blocks or aerated concrete, which is better?? Both materials are good, however, each of them has features that must be taken into account during masonry work, anchoring, finishing and insulation. Compliance special technology in work as with ceramic blocks, and with gas block - the main component in the construction of a reliable and comfortable residential building.
We told you about the main properties of ceramic block and aerated concrete, now the choice is yours. There will always be clients who choose a house made of aerated concrete and those who will always remain staunch supporters of brick house construction.
Estimates for building a house made of brick and/or aerated concrete (including comparative estimates) are prepared by our specialists free of charge and in just 1 day. To receive an estimate, simply fill out the form at the bottom of the page.
Many builders and self-builders are concerned about the question: which house will be cheaper to build, from aerated concrete or brick? For the impatient, we note that the final price comparison table is at the bottom of the article. Well, we will analyze in detail all the stages of wall construction.
In this article we will look at prices for bricks, gas blocks, glue, mortar, fittings, labor, etc. The tables will indicate approximate prices both in hryvnias and rubles.
We looked at all prices for materials and work in Ukraine, and to convert to Russian prices, we multiplied the prices by three.
| Name | Values and cost UAH. | Cost rubles |
| Composition of the solution | 1 part cement and 3 parts sand. | |
| Cubic meter of solution |
250 kg of cement + 750 kg of sand. | |
| Price of cement for a cube of mortar | 10 bags of cement, 25 kg each = 550 UAH. | |
| Price of sand for a cube of mortar | 750 kg = 100 UAH. | 250 rub. |
| Total cost of a cube of solution | 650 UAH | 1700 rub. |
| Volume of mortar for laying a brick cube | 0.25m3. | |
| Cost of mortar per cubic meter of masonry | 650*0.25=140 UAH. | 400 rub. |
| Name | Values and cost UAH. | Cost rubles |
| Cost of one brick | 3.3 UAH | 10 rub. |
| Brick cube (512 pcs.) |
1600 UAH | 4800 RUR |
| The cost of a brick per cube of masonry excluding the cost of mortar | (400 pcs.) – 1300 UAH. | 4320 RUR |
| Cost of a cube of brickwork, taking into account the cost of mortar (400 pcs.) | 1440 UAH | 4320 RUR |
| A square of brickwork one and a half bricks thick (380 mm) | 153 pcs. = 505 UAH. | 1515 RUR |
| Square masonry of one and a half bricks (153 pcs.) + mortar (380 mm) | 505+50 = 555 UAH. | 1665 RUR |
| Brick laying per cube | 400 UAH | 1200 RUR |
| Cost of work for laying bricks per square, the thickness of the brickwork is one and a half bricks | 160 UAH | 480 RUR |
| The total cost of a square of brickwork of one and a half bricks (brick + mortar + work) | 555+160=715 UAH. | 2145 RUR |
| Total cost of a square of brickwork of two bricks (brick + mortar + labor) | 700+200=900 UAH. | 2700 RUR |
| Name | Values or cost UAH. | Cost rubles |
| Aerated concrete size 600*250*200 | 33 pcs. cubed | |
| Aerated concrete size 600*250*300 | 22 pcs. cubed | |
| Aerated concrete size 600*250*400 | 16 pcs. cubed | |
| Cube of aerated concrete (m3) | 1300 UAH | 3900 rub. |
| Cost of laying aerated concrete per cubic meter | 300 UAH | 900 rub. |
Cost of masonry square meter aerated concrete excluding work and glue
Calculation of reinforcement and glue for reinforcing every third row of masonry
Total cost per square of masonry (all materials + work)
As can be seen from the tables, Construction of walls made of aerated concrete is cheaper, but do not forget that for a house made of aerated concrete it is necessary need an armored belt, the cost of which is approximately 500 UAH. (1500 rub.) per linear meter.
An example of calculating the cost of the walls of a house 10 by 10 meters with a ceiling height of 2.5 meters.
The cost of an armored belt for 50 linear meters ranges from 15,000 to 30,000 UAH (60-90 thousand rubles)
We took average prices for materials and work, and as you can see, aerated concrete walls with a thickness of 300 mm cost about the same as brick walls of one and a half bricks.
Calculations on the cost of insulation would be helpful, but that’s a completely different story)
